If We Try Very Hard We Too Can Be Italy

This guys is serious.  He’s honestly making the case that the United States doesn’t pay enough in taxes and that if we only paid more, we could enjoy the benefits of Italy:

Italy may be in a funk, with a shrinking economy and a high unemployment rate, but the United States can learn a lot from it, and not just about the benefits of public health care. Italians live longer. Their poverty rate is much lower than ours. If they lose their jobs or suffer some other misfortune, they can turn to a more generous social safety net.

Mr. Porter makes this case with what I can only assume is a straight face.  What he calls a “funk” is really an economy that is one of the worst in Europe, perhaps only behind Greece.  And he’s actually trying to make the case that we, the United States, can learn a lot from Italy.

We can.  But not in the way that the author is trying to point out.  What we have to learn from Italy is what NOT to do.  Certainly not WHAT to do.

Consider:

No wonder we can’t afford to keep more children alive. In 2007, the most recent year for which figures are available, the United States government spent about 16 percent of its output on social programs — things like public health, food and housing for the poor. In Italy, that figure was 25 percent.

Here again, Porter is lamenting the fact that the United States spends “only” 16%  of our output, GDP[?], while Italy spends 25%.  Yet no mention that Italy is deeply in debt and failing to grow its way out of the danger zone.

In short, the government has spent too much money.  So much so that Italy is deeply in danger of economic catastrophe.  Hardly a fair price to pay for  extended unemployment benefits.

It’s safe to say that when presented an argument that we need to raise taxes in order to emulate Italy you are dealing with a deeply partisan statist.

 

5 responses to “If We Try Very Hard We Too Can Be Italy

  1. I’d say we could all pay more taxes and be Sweden. We are the lowest taxed advanced industrial country in the world, we have a declining middle class (and that’s not due to changes in family size) and our poor are worse off than most other advanced industrialized countries. We have more income inequality after taxes and transfers and low class mobility. We could learn from Scandinavia. Though I think to make it work effectively we’d have to break up the country into a number of smaller countries — you are right that a massive bureaucracy in DC is not a good way to handle things.

    • We are the lowest taxed advanced industrial country in the world

      You say this as if it’s a bad thing!

      we have a declining middle class (and that’s not due to changes in family size)

      We’ll see. Family size matters, to be sure….

      our poor are worse off than most other advanced industrialized countries.

      Our poor have it better than the median family in Europe.

      Though I think to make it work effectively we’d have to break up the country into a number of smaller countries

      It does make me uncomfortable to know —to read?— that some people feel those countries succeed in the way they do is because they are more homogenous. I shudder to think that that says about human nature.

  2. I don’t think it’s at all controversial to say that there are things we can learn from other countries, Italy included. I don’t even think the article you link to says we need to replicate Italy across-the-board – just that the Italians do certain things better than us, which they undoubtedly do.

    How do you respond to the following points that the author makes: “The United States, among the richest of all, fails in important ways. It has the highest poverty and the highest infant mortality among developed nations. We provide among the least generous unemployment benefits in the industrial world. Not long ago one of the most educated countries in the world, the United States is slipping behind. ”

    As for Italy having the worst economy in Europe other than Greece, how are you measuring “worst”?

    • I don’t think it’s at all controversial to say that there are things we can learn from other countries, Italy included.

      It would be a hard slog to use Italy, or Greece or Spain, as examples of how to run an economy.

      which they undoubtedly do.

      If you mean the examples they use, I think you would have to include the fact that Italy is in deep fiscal trouble. And that the fancy and robust social benefits are driving their economy into even worse shape.

      It has the highest poverty

      I noticed that and it struck me as strange. If indeed we have higher rates, we should take a look. However, I’m uncertain how they calculate that rate.

      the highest infant mortality among developed nations.

      I’ve discussed this before. The United States has more cases of hypertension, single mothers, fathers in jail and IVF babies than almost every nation. More of our babies are born with low birth rates and are born premature more often. All those conditions contribute to infant mortality rate.

      However, if you take a look at the data, babies born with such at risk conditions survive at a higher rate here.

      We provide among the least generous unemployment benefits in the industrial world.

      Not that I enjoy quoting Krugman, but he feels that more generous unemployment benefits leads to European levels of unemployment.

      Not long ago one of the most educated countries in the world, the United States is slipping behind.

      I agree with this. However, a Clinton level official claims that using the NAEP test and comparing it across demographics, the United States does very well.

      As for Italy having the worst economy in Europe other than Greece, how are you measuring “worst”?

      GDP, debt and unemployment.

  3. Pino ,

    What Scott wrote is truly stunning . We should be Sweden, but first we should break up the United States into some smalled countries . Then I guess Socialism might work .

    There is a much easier way to test economic theories . It’s called states rights . What if we pretended to break up the United States into 50 countries . Then gave each state more power . Those countries like California and Illinois could then see if they can tax and spend their way out of ruin . Other Countries like Texas, and Arizona could see if cutting taxes and spending, and enforcing borders has any effect on prosperity .

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