Look, I like Rand Paul. I resonate with much of what he says. And this even more so.
Ignore the comments about term limits – I can go back and forth on that one. Just listen to his comments on how the Fiscal Cliff Senate legislation was passed.
No printed bill.
Made available online at 01:36.
Voted on at 01:39.
Partisan politics aside, there is no earthly way that an argument can be made that this is an example of how we want legislation debated, written, studied and then voted on.
No way.
Which is also why no party should be able to use something like the debt ceiling to essentially say “we’ll let the economy collapse if you don’t give in to us.” Who could possibly think that would be a responsible thing to do! Yet it creates the kind of crisis mentality that leads to the kind of legislating you’re against. What they should do is: a) pass a debt ceiling increase for the money the Republican House has already voted to spend; and b) engage in solid and open negotiation about budget cuts with no hurry but a clear goal. I expect President Obama for the good of the country to refuse any negotiation on the debt ceiling — no President can let one party hold the global economy hostage. But he needs to also take the lead for negotiating a budget deal separate from that.
Which is also why no party should be able to use something like the debt ceiling to essentially say “we’ll let the economy collapse if you don’t give in to us.”
This isn’t the debt crisis. This is the response to tax cuts that have “expired” before. And they were pushed back, on purpose, by this Majority Leader. It was HIS senate that passed that legislation.
Harry Reid has run the Senate for how many freakin years ? Barry Obama has been President for how many freakin years ? The Senate and the President have not passed a freakin budget in how many years ? And You still blame Republicans ? As Harry Hoo said ” Amasing ” .
Harry Reid has run the Senate for how many freakin years ? Barry Obama has been President for how many freakin years ? The Senate and the President have not passed a freakin budget in how many years ? And You still blame Republicans ?
Agreed. This is Obama’s economy. And he signed into law the bills that resulted in the mess we find ourselves. Indeed much of it is due to his “signature” legislation.
The House is held by the Republicans. Budgets have to get through both houses of Congress. Neither side can agree on a budget, it’s silly to point the finger and just blame the other side. My point is only that the style of the GOP – to talk now of holding the global economy hostage in the debt ceiling crisis to try to force the Democrats to give in to them – is precisely what causes the kind of dysfunction. No sane person risks economic collapse and holds the economy hostage to try to get their way. I tell you, unless the GOP shows some rationality on this, 2014 will be very good for the Democrats. Saying “the Senate hasn’t passed a budget” is a pretty weak counter.
The House is held by the Republicans. Budgets have to get through both houses of Congress. Neither side can agree on a budget, it’s silly to point the finger and just blame the other side.
Reid doesn’t even bring it to the floor for a vote.
Back to the point; Obama’s economy. The democrats making.
The economy is where it is because of thirty years of policies. You can’t blame Obama, that’s is again objectively false. Obama doesn’t pass budgets or make laws, all that goes through Congress. Pino, you know all this. You know it’s not Obama’s economy or any one person’s. You also know Obama won re-election pretty handily.
Seriously, do you really think you can say it’s all the Democrats economy when the GOP holds the House and the great recession started in 2008? Seriously? You know better than that, Pino! Though if it starts growing in his second term, I suppose he’ll be given a lot of credit. I promise I will not credit him or the Democrats alone.
The economy is where it is because of thirty years of policies. You can’t blame Obama, that’s is again objectively false.
It wasn’t Obama that put the economy into recession. However, it IS Obama that drove the legislation that has kept us in a slow recovery.
Obama doesn’t pass budgets or make laws, all that goes through Congress.
I gave Reid equal billing.
No sane person runs up $ Trillion deficits for four years . How can Republicans be blamed when all they do is feebly attempt to restrain the spending that Reid and Obama use to buy power ? ” The House is held by the Republicans. Budgets have to get through both houses of Congress. ” Interesting, so Republicans are co-conspirators in running up the deficits and wanton spending, yet they are traitorous, unAmerican, and terrorists when they try to cut spending from the budget . Damned if they do and damned if they don’t . And you see no contradictions in your arguments ?
Alan, what was insane was massive increases of debt during a boom. That happened in the 80s, and in the 00’s. The only time to run up debt is during a recession to stimulate the economy. Also, during the boom unemployment was low and social welfare programs relatively cheap. They go way up in cost during a recession. For the last 30 years Republicans and Democrats share the blame for what’s happened. There’s no other honest way to read it. There is too much of “two legs good four legs bad” thinking on both sides. Left and Right caused this together, only by compromising can they solve it together. What is traitorous and un-American is to hold the global economy hostage with a debt ceiling threat. Obama must not give in, and if the GOP refuses to raise the debt ceiling and we go into global recession again, make the GOP pay in 2014. That will destroy the conservative movement, perhaps for decades. Maybe it’s a trap – maybe Obama wants them to refuse so that he can bury them in 2014! Think the President is that devious?
Scott,
Do I think this President is that devious ? Of course, but the trap is for America . You did not address what I said. You blame Republicans both for the deficit and for trying to block President Obama’s spending plans . That is illogical .
No, I blame both parties. The Republicans can’t “block” his spending, the House must approve all spending. Obama can spend nothing the House doesn’t approve. That’s what’s perverse about holding the global economy hostage over a manufactured debt ceiling crisis – the House has already approved spending that money. It’s their bill – the Senate approved it too, and the President signed it. If they want to cut spending, great, but the President must not negotiate over the debt ceiling, Congress can’t hold the global economy hostage. If they approved the money, they should be willing to pay. Both parties share responsibility – that’s the way America works, it’s almost always wrong to say “one party good, the other bad.”
When I saw the title of the post and then pictures of Rand Paul and Hannity, I had high hopes for this post. I was sorely disappointed but I guess I should’ve known better.
When I saw the title of the post and then pictures of Rand Paul and Hannity, I had high hopes for this post. I was sorely disappointed but I guess I should’ve known better.
Sorry man. Thought I nailed this one. I find it remarkable that bills are passed without being read. In fact, without even being made available for more than 3 minutes.
If you look at the last 3 minutes in isolation, yes, it is remarkable. But less so if you look at the process leading up to it.
But less so if you look at the process leading up to it.
The genesis of the Bush Tax Rates began long before I cared about politics. So I can’t comment from literal personal experience, but I am sure that the whole long bumpy road was a cluster; on both sides of the aisle.
Scott,
You say that Republicans must approve all spending in the House of Representatives, so therefore it is partially their fault .
May I point out that the House Republicans have no choice in the spending because a lot of it is automatically funding the entitlements . They Must spend this money.
Entitlements is where the real money in the budget is . Everyone agrees that you cannot solve the budget problems with out cutting the growth in entitlements . Don’t believe me ? Let’s see, what if I quote a source even you might accept ? President Obama : ” There have been times when our side, when Democrats aren’t always as flexible as we need to be ” ” Sometimes I do get frustrated when I hear folks say ” you can’t make any changes to any government programs ” Well that can’t be right . ” On Medicare ” We will not be able to sustain that program no matter how much taxes go up ” , ” I mean it is not an option for us to just sit back and do nothing ” .
I contend that this is President Obama being candid . I contend that he has backed away from working with House Republicans on entitlements because of politics . He has kicked the can down the road again . That is the real tragedy of his Presidency .